Talk:A Clockwork Orange
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Russianized slang
What was the reason for this? Did the main character just have an affinity for Russian? Was this a Russianized Europe (instead of Americanized?).
-G -Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.171.64 (talk) 10:41, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
See here and here. pablohablo. 12:08, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Merge with Ultraviolence
Concerning the Ultraviolence article which was considered for deletion, the consensus was to merge with this article. Although I was the creator of the Ultraviolence article, I'm certainly not an expert in A clockwork Orange, so I don't consider myself the best one to perform the merge. Here's the article's main part which I think should (somehow) be merged here (sorry if this is unnecessary, but I don't know how merging articles works):
---
Ultraviolence is a term used roughly to describe acts of excessive and/or unjustified violence. The term was coined by Anthony Burgess in his novel A Clockwork Orange, where the main character Alex DeLarge and his gang of "droogs" roam the streets committing violent crimes out of enjoyment, including rape and murder, referred to as "do[ing] the ultra-violent".
This sense of aesthetic violence has led to the term's usage in media, i.e. criticism regarding the representation of violence as enjoyable spectacle. The term "ultraviolence" has been applied to several works of entertainment such as the Saw series[1], Hostel[2], GANTZ[3], and the Manhunt game series[4].
- ^ AFP (2007-10-29). "Gruesome 'Saw 4' slashes through North American box-office". http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gKh4MPBUr7_ZFvg7tyPFe1IXCAXw. Retrieved 2008-01-15.
- ^ "Q&A With 'Hostel' Director Eli Roth and Quentin Tarantino - New York Magazine". http://nymag.com/nymetro/movies/features/15436/. Retrieved 2008-01-15.
- ^ "ADV Announces New Gantz Collection, Final Guyver & More: Nov 6 Releases". http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/press-release/2007-09-06/adv-announces-new-gantz-collection-final-guyver-and-more-nov-6-releases. Retrieved 2008-01-15.
- ^ CBS News. ""Manhunt 2": Most Violent Game Yet?, Critics Say New Video Game Is Too Realistic; Players Must Torture, Kill - CBS News". http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/30/eveningnews/eyeontech/main3433101.shtml. Retrieved 2008-01-15.
and some links from the external links section I consider relevant for the term and the book:
- Clockwork Orange and the Aestheticization of Violence
- Screening Violence Film theory appoach to ultraviolence in the media
- UltraViolent Atrocities Saturate Pop Culture
Kreachure (talk) 16:27, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
"He is also unable to listen to any classical composition without experiencing the same jarring physical reaction."
Is this right? I saw the movie a week ago, and I distinctly remember that Alex claimed to only get ill in reaction to "just the 9th." 129.119.187.242 (talk) 01:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I admit I have not yet read the book, but it is possible it is different from the movie in that matter. Puceron (talk) 04:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
In the book it seems that any classical music will do this to him. It's probably just different from the movie (which I have not seen).76.216.113.183 (talk) 00:22, 2 June 2008 (UTC)anonymous
The meaning of "orang" as stated in the article
Actually, the article incorrectly states "orang" means man. In fact, it means "person". Man can be translated "pria" or "lelaki". 198.185.66.18 (talk) 14:18, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
- "Man" has two meanings in English, the oldest is "person"/"human", the newer but today more common is "male". 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 15:18, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Umm, "the final chapter"?
In the final chapter, Alex finds himself half-heartedly preparing for yet another night of crime with a new trio of droogs. After a chance encounter with Pete, who has reformed and married, Alex finds himself taking less and less pleasure in acts of senseless violence. He begins contemplating giving up crime himself to become a productive member of society and start a family of his own, while reflecting on the notion that his own children will be just as destructive-- if not more so-- than he himself.
Really? I just finished my copy (Ballantine Books First Edition, Thirty First Printing - November 1987) and this definitely isn't in the book. The final chapter ends with Alex in the hospital listening to Beethoven's Ninth. Then an afterword by Stanley Edgar Hyman, a Nadsat glossary, and... that's it. So either this is specific to some edition of the book I don't possess (which itself would be noteworthy), or it's completely made up by some clever editor, or I'm going batshit insane. --WayneMokane (talk) 02:03, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
- In some other article, I read that the American edition omits the final chapter. We should find a reliable source and update the article accordingly. ike9898 (talk) 03:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
- Yep seems like you're right on that one. Moreover our article A Clockwork Orange (film) on the film discusses this because apparently Kubrick unknowingly based his film on the omitted-final-chapter American version. I didn't notice that before I posted my first comment here since I was deliberately trying to avoid that article having not seen the film yet. So... I guess all that's left is to mention that little tidbit in this article citing the same source? --WayneMokane (talk) 04:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
- I used to have an old British (Penguin) edition of the book which also omitted the final chapter, in fact for years after reading it I was unaware that there was a chapter missing. I'll try and find a citation for this. MFlet1 (talk) 08:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Alex's surname
Moved this here from the article:
"However, in the film, following the attempted suicide the newspapers state his name as 'Alex Burgess' very clearly.[citation needed] The newspaper in the movie does not say Alex Burgess, it is the authors name in the newspapers as Burgess; refering to the original author"
Obviously needs to be worked out before it can go back in. ike9898 (talk) 13:26, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Article needs balance
I think that lead sentence should give a very brief description of what the book is about. Currently it says nothing about this. Further, I think that the plot summary is a little too detailed. Just my opinion of what would make the article better for anyone who cares to work on it. ike9898 (talk) 14:17, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Discrepancy in article
Under the "After prison" heading, it states
Alex falls into the hands of Mr. Alexander, the husband of the woman he raped at the beginning of part one. Mr. Alexander was apparently crippled in the initial assault and is now confined to a wheelchair, and his wife is now deceased, due to an illness he blames on the rape. Since Alex was wearing a Disraeli mask during the earlier assault, Alexander does not recognize him as the attacker. Recognizing Alex's photo from the newspaper, Mr. Alexander's political activist friends decide to use him as a weapon against the government by turning him into a poster child for the victims of fascism; they play classical music in the room beside his, triggering the maddening effect of the Ludovico treatment. Driven to insanity by the music, Alex jumps from his bedroom window in an attempt to end his life.
while under the "Characters" heading it states
F. Alexander: An author writing, at the beginning of the novel, his own novel called A Clockwork Orange. The gang breaks into his house and brutally beats him while forcing him to watch as they rape his wife. He is paralyzed as a result of the attack, while his wife dies. He takes Alex in off the street, and then tries to drive him to suicide after recognizing him.
This seems to be a difference of opinion regarding both whether Alex was recognised by Mr. Alexander, and the motives for trying to drive him to suicide, which should be reconciled.
My understanding of both the book and the film is that the former is correct, but others may disagree Gyroreach (talk) 21:04, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
F. Alexander
F. Alexander: An author writing, at the beginning of the novel, his own novel called A Clockwork Orange. The gang breaks into his house and brutally beats him while forcing him to watch as they rape his wife. He is paralysed as a result of the attack, while his wife dies. He takes Alex in off the street, and then tries to drive him to suicide after recognising him.
I haven't read the book in some years, but I have read it several times. Is it correct that he was paralyzed in the book? I recall he was caring for Alex alone, and don't remember any mention of a wheelchair or the like. I think that might have been an addition to the film for visual purposes. --68.35.11.25 (talk) 11:44, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Indeed, I just checked, and am correcting. The book specifies in part 3 chapter 4 that Alex hears "nogas" (feet or legs) coming to the door before Mr. Alexander opens it, and since he appears to otherwise be alone in the house and no mention of wheelchairs or crutches are made, one can presume Alexander is fully ambulatory.--68.35.11.25 (talk) 11:53, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Disconnected ibid, etc.
Could someone please identify the citation to which the ibid in "(Burgess' words, ibid.)" means to refer? I think it probably means to refer to the strangely-formatted "Burgess, Anthony (1986) A Clockwork Orange Resucked in A Clockwork Orange, W. W. Norton & Company, New York" citation, but I can't find that online, don't have access to a paper copy, and I'm not sure. See Wikipedia:FOOT#Style recommendations. Incidentally, if this, this, and this apparent copyvio requotes are accurate, Burgess' words there didn't include the phrase "badly flawed". -- Boracay Bill (talk) 12:41, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
As queer as a clockwork orange
Not sure how this is relevant to the article but what's queer about a clockwork orange? --86.149.220.250 (talk) 09:02, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- Despite its modern connotations the word queer actually just means strange, and a clockwork orange is most definitely a strange concept. People used to use the word queer much more generally than they do now, it was a very common word for describing absolutely anything out of the ordinary. For example if you were ill you might say you felt queer. --88.112.152.215 (talk) 00:08, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
The Mighty Boosh
Its a minor point that could be added: in the episode Electro in series 1 the band is called Kraftwork Orange, and they dress like droogs, but with suspenders. AutomaticWriting 03:40, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Korova Milk Bar - NYC
Though now moved on , there used to be a " Korova Milk Bar " on 200 Avenue A in New York City. It was a fairly good replica of the movie set, to include the mannequins ( though they did not dispense anything ) and the font/text on the walls. The rest of the bar consisted of video screens, a jukebox, and drinks named after elements of the book and film.
The bar shut down in 2006 as I understand due to economic issues. There have been rumors about it coming back in Las Vegas circa 2008 but nothing ever came of this.
There is a bar listed as Korova Milk Bar at 213 East Post Road White Plains, NY 10601 (914) 949-8838 , which has the same menu and pictures show the same motif as the bar in New York City, but I have not visited it in person so I can't be sure. -Preceding unsigned comment added by Delchi (talk - contribs) 19:17, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
some other points
There's an essay by Burgess in which he says his current feelings about the necessity of the last chapter are ambiguous, and that the American publisher might have been right about removing it.
The plot summary neglects several important points. Alex does, indeed, justify his behavior, in a Nietzschean manner -- that, as he is not an intellectual "sheep" and is consciously self-aware, he is therefore free to do whatever he likes, because he is doing it of his own free will. This butts up against an essay he finds in the house of one of his victims, titled "A Clockwork Orange", in which the writer talks about something that seems to be organic and alive, but is actually a deterministic mechanism. Alex gets the point, and tears up the essay in anger. Naturally, none of this appears in Kubrick's wretchedly perverse film. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 19:18, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Reception
Why is there no critical reception section. Portillo (talk) 09:47, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
